144,000 willl get in????

[Taz]

This has been a big source of confusion for me regarding the bible. People have said over and over again about the 144,000 that will get into heaven. Can someone please explain that one to me.

[Immaculate]

This has been a big source of confusion for me regarding the bible. People have said over and over again about the 144,000 that will get into heaven. Can someone please explain that one to me.
Thank you. One-hundred and forty-four thousand isn't much; so, I too, would like an explanation.

[Taz]

...and I use the term confusion loosely.

but let me give an example of something where I was like WTH.

My ex-brother in law was murdered. He was a womanizing drug dealer till his death.

at the funeral everyone was like he is in/going to heaven now because he was gave his life to Christ, mind you at the age of 5, and he is with the Lord now......

now because he was murdered in the middle of the day and more than likely committed a good 20 sins before he had a chance to atone i'm like (in my head cause i wasn't tryna start nothing on that day) yall sure????

i'm thinking if that is the number that is allowed in, you pretty much have to be living like mother theresa to get in.......not like my brother in law

[lkatulvnme]

i'm not sure where in the bible it states that only 144,000 people will get into heaven. i believe there may be some religious sects who believe that-but i know that there is not a limit on the amount of people who will get in heaven in bible that i read.

[Nocturnal]

i'm not sure where in the bible it states that only 144,000 people will get into heaven. i believe there may be some religious sects who believe that-but i know that there is not a limit on the amount of people who will get in heaven in bible that i read.

If I'm not mistaken its in Revelation but don't ask me what chapter cause that entire book just scares me to death. Maybe Spicey or someone else can tell us where exactly its located.

[peeper]

i never heard of that - someone needs to point out that chapter to me...

[Taz]

.....it's in Revelations 7:4 and Revelations 14:1

that is where the number is at least

[lkatulvnme]

i found it: it's in the 7th and 14th chapter of revelations. however, it states that there 144,000 sealed from the tribes of Israel. behind them were a great multitude of people from different nations/tribes/nations/tongues/people. read chapter 7.

but i am certain that Jehovah's Witnesses rely base their being on the fact that only 144,000 will get into heaven. that's all.

[Taz]

do a search and you will come up with a ton of hits.......everyone trying to explain that number....

and Noc when I did my search I found an article by Wayne Jackson (LMAO!!! private joke all)

*edit
that article is interesting and for all to read

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[Nocturnal]

and Noc when I did my search I found an article by Wayne Jackson (LMAO!!! private joke all)

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. om/articles/604-who-are-the-144-000-of-revelation-7-and-14+144,000+will+enter+the+kingdom+of+heaven&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Oh No...Not Wayne. LMAO!!!

[Taz]

i have heard it from others, not just the JVs lkatuluvnme

[lkatulvnme]

i have heard it from others, not just the JVs lkatuluvnme

i don't doubt that at all, taz.

[biggdogg1230]

From a Google search:

The 144,000 are mentioned three times in the Book of Revelation:

Revelation 7:3-8 (ESV)

saying: "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the servants of God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

Revelation 14:1 (ESV)

Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

Revelation 14:3-5 (ESV)

And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

[peeper]

^thanks biggdogg!

[ratid]

From a Google search:

The 144,000 are mentioned three times in the Book of Revelation:

Revelation 7:3-8 (ESV)

saying: "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the servants of God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

Revelation 14:1 (ESV)

Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

Revelation 14:3-5 (ESV)

And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

it doesn't seem like these will be the only ones chosen, just those who have met a special requirement, e.g. being virgins, etc. cuz it would mean a lot of married church folk are doomed.

excuse my lack of bible knowledge and for going off topic. who are the
four livng creatures and the elders who these 144K are supposed to
come before.

[Taz]

*delete*

[Spiceyworkingmom]

Hey Taz, Im am doing a Bible Study on Revelations and I have read parts where it has a certain number will be saved.

Revelations was written at a time where John was banished to an Island called Patmos , where he wrote Revelations from his visions from God. This was a time where Rome was persecuting all Christians. Rome had evil dictators such as Nero. He is encouraging Christians to keep on, basically empowering them because Rome's persecutions will not last. Rome will be destroyed.

The number 144,000 represents the highest number in Roman Numerals at that time. For some it meant inffinity. If that is the case there is not a limit to who will be saved.
For me this book represents alot of symbolism which caused me to look up the history of and around Revelations. Although Revelations was written at that time, this book is timeless there are things happening today and will be happening where we can refer back to Revelations. It is important to remember this as well.

I hope I answered your question without boring you or confusing you anymore lol. :):)

[7Aurelius]

sounds like a vip section of heaven....

[Taz]

Thanks Spicey.

The 144,000 is the sum of the total of the 12,000 from the 12 tribes so it is hard for me to consider it infinity.

[Spiceyworkingmom]

For me, Revelations was written in code and/ or symbolism. Due to at that time Christian were persecuted so some things John could not come out and say. That is why when I learned that 144,000 was as high as the Roman numeral system went and learning it meant for some infinity, that answered that particular question I had. I dont take Revelations literally not all of it. Because there is why too many symbolism in it. For example the number 7 means spiritual completeness.

Again this is what I have been studying and learning with regards to Revelations.

[Taz]

I dont take Revelations literally not all of it. Because there is why too many symbolism in it. For example the number 7 means spiritual completeness.

Again this is what I have been studying and learning with regards to Revelations.it's kind of hard to......

[souled_out]

before i get off this janky computer and go back to my crib...^^^^lolz

You cant take all of revelation litteraly lol for anyone who studied the bible, that should be obivous...

Anyways i have no knoweldge on what spicey is saying as far as the roman learning system so i think im going to need her yahoo im for bible studies lolz...

However i do know that the bible does say, as mentioned earlier, that there will be a great multitude from every nation and tribe that no man can number... which obvisouly shows that these 144000 wont be the only ones...

It does make sense however that the Jews, Gods chosen people, are in one group because salvation come first to the Jews then to the gentiles...

If you think about it, You'd have a song to sing(that noone sles could) if you and your brother's lives were saved by your dad, and others were saved by their foster parent, which is also your dad...your song would be different. Although its the same salvation, its a slightly different connection.

as for me i have way more studyin to do concerning this...and would love to see more points of view and knowledge disperesed

[Spiceyworkingmom]

before i get off this janky computer and go back to my crib...^^^^lolz

You cant take all of revelation litteraly lol for anyone who studied the bible, that should be obivous...

Anyways i have no knoweldge on what spicey is saying as far as the roman learning system so i think im going to need her yahoo im for bible studies lolz...

However i do know that the bible does say, as mentioned earlier, that there will be a great multitude from every nation and tribe that no man can number... which obvisouly shows that these 144000 wont be the only ones...

It does make sense however that the Jews, Gods chosen people, are in one group because salvation come first to the Jews then to the gentiles...

If you think about it, You'd have a song to sing(that noone sles could) if you and your brother's lives were saved by your dad, and others were saved by their foster parent, which is also your dad...your song would be different. Although its the same salvation, its a slightly different connection.

as for me i have way more studyin to do concerning this...and would love to see more points of view and knowledge disperesed
Lol Soul that right there is a great answer. I have not set up my yahoo messenger but im still thinking about it . But feel free to ask me questions ill answer them and if I dont know ill get very reliable resources lol . :d2:

[Forbus]

I dunno to me the bible just registers to be as a dusty book rewritten and revised over 1000 times and all of them full of shit.

[Fabgoddess@40!]

I dunno to me the bible just registers to be as a dusty book rewritten and revised over 1000 times and all of them full of shit.




I agree.

You know what? ... I find it odd that adults have been so brain-washed by this Bible stuff. It's amazing that so many grown folks are so child-like when it comes to religion. It's scary!

[Forbus]

I agree.

You know what? ... I find it odd that adults have been so brain-washed by this Bible stuff. It's amazing that so many grown folks are so child-like when it comes to religion. It's scary!

Wow, I'm glad that somone here feels exactly how i do.

[souled_out]

Actually its far from brainwash.... Brain wash strips liberty, the Bible gives liberty....

also Biblical prophecies have come true, and have been proven...

the fact of the matter is that the bible in its self forces it self on no man, and neither does the Holy Spirit...

It is actaully based off of willingness and faith, not obedience and perfectionism

The scripture that says if any many thirst "let him come unto me" (john 7:37)

Biblical principles actaully encourage others as seen in proverbs to open up to knowledge and wisdom...showing how valuable it is...

The bible encourages love, social reform, economic upbuilding, helping out those who are in need...
healing and sharing joy,
Developing as a pesron
enjoying life
thinking for yourself
and making the most out of your life
and helpin others who are willing to accept help

if that is considered brainwash...re-exam the music industry, marketing, society etc... and tell me what your real opinion on brainwashing is...

The fact of the matter is that the bible accepts everything thats not of sin, just like the law accepts everything thats not of crime...But the catch is you can Be forgivin by Believing that Jesus is Lord and that God rose him from the dead with all power in his hands...

although that may sound foolish it doesnt mean its not true...
just like work from home jobs sounded foolish at one point...but now we are eeing that many of they are not scams...


Many things seem foolish but God, outsmarting us as humans, took something that was foolish to us, to befinfit all who are WILLING to be helped, by dying on the cross,(which was symbolized before hand by when jews offered/sacraficed a lamb for peace) God use something foolish and pointless to humans, so that those whp really wanted salvation, eductaed-dumb-poor-rich, can recieve it.

A problem comes in when people are unwilling to believe in Any God, but rather trust what they known all there lives, or lack there of
and call Christianity, a Love Relationship with God, brainwash...

some or to afraid that they will pick the wrong religion so they reject the idea of religion its self, some or hurt by people who go against the word of God, and taking their scars they reject christianity
and some are so full of knowledge and reasoning, they cant understand why a God would behave this way...

The good news is, that chrisitianity is for the willing, and should never be forced on anybody, so these individuals have a chance to say no...

[Spiceyworkingmom]

Actually its far from brainwash.... Brain wash strips liberty, the Bible gives liberty....

also Biblical prophecies have come true, and have been proven...

the fact of the matter is that the bible in its self forces it self on no man, and neither does the Holy Spirit...

It is actaully based off of willingness and faith, not obedience and perfectionism

The scripture that says if any many thirst "let him come unto me" (john 7:37)

Biblical principles actaully encourage others as seen in proverbs to open up to knowledge and wisdom...showing how valuable it is...

The bible encourages love, social reform, economic upbuilding, helping out those who are in need...
healing and sharing joy,
Developing as a pesron
enjoying life
thinking for yourself
and making the most out of your life
and helpin others who are willing to accept help

if that is considered brainwash...re-exam the music industry, marketing, society etc... and tell me what your real opinion on brainwashing is...

The fact of the matter is that the bible accepts everything thats not of sin, just like the law accepts everything thats not of crime...But the catch is you can Be forgivin by Believing that Jesus is Lord and that God rose him from the dead with all power in his hands...

although that may sound foolish it doesnt mean its not true...
just like work from home jobs sounded foolish at one point...but now we are eeing that many of they are not scams...


Many things seem foolish but God, outsmarting us as humans, took something that was foolish to us, to befinfit all who are WILLING to be helped, by dying on the cross,(which was symbolized before hand by when jews offered/sacraficed a lamb for peace) God use something foolish and pointless to humans, so that those whp really wanted salvation, eductaed-dumb-poor-rich, can recieve it.

A problem comes in when people are unwilling to believe in Any God, but rather trust what they known all there lives, or lack there of
and call Christianity, a Love Relationship with God, brainwash...

some or to afraid that they will pick the wrong religion so they reject the idea of religion its self, some or hurt by people who go against the word of God, and taking their scars they reject christianity
and some are so full of knowledge and reasoning, they cant understand why a God would behave this way...

The good news is, that chrisitianity is for the willing, and should never be forced on anybody, so these individuals have a chance to say no...
Wow Soul preach on Brotha! especially the part i bold faced. The music and enterainment industry is doing a number on people and they don't even see it! :applause::applause::applause:

[Forbus]

Actually its far from brainwash.... Brain wash strips liberty, the Bible gives liberty....

also Biblical prophecies have come true, and have been proven...

the fact of the matter is that the bible in its self forces it self on no man, and neither does the Holy Spirit...

It is actaully based off of willingness and faith, not obedience and perfectionism

The scripture that says if any many thirst "let him come unto me" (john 7:37)

Biblical principles actaully encourage others as seen in proverbs to open up to knowledge and wisdom...showing how valuable it is...

The bible encourages love, social reform, economic upbuilding, helping out those who are in need...
healing and sharing joy,
Developing as a pesron
enjoying life
thinking for yourself
and making the most out of your life
and helpin others who are willing to accept help

if that is considered brainwash...re-exam the music industry, marketing, society etc... and tell me what your real opinion on brainwashing is...

The fact of the matter is that the bible accepts everything thats not of sin, just like the law accepts everything thats not of crime...But the catch is you can Be forgivin by Believing that Jesus is Lord and that God rose him from the dead with all power in his hands...

although that may sound foolish it doesnt mean its not true...
just like work from home jobs sounded foolish at one point...but now we are seeing that many of they are not scams...


Many things seem foolish but God, outsmarting us as humans, took something that was foolish to us, to befinfit all who are WILLING to be helped, by dying on the cross,(which was symbolized before hand by when jews offered/sacraficed a lamb for peace) God use something foolish and pointless to humans, so that those whp really wanted salvation, eductaed-dumb-poor-rich, can recieve it.

A problem comes in when people are unwilling to believe in Any God, but rather trust what they known all there lives, or lack there of
and call Christianity, a Love Relationship with God, brainwash...

some or to afraid that they will pick the wrong religion so they reject the idea of religion its self, some or hurt by people who go against the word of God, and taking their scars they reject christianity
and some are so full of knowledge and reasoning, they cant understand why a God would behave this way...

The good news is, that chrisitianity is for the willing, and should never be forced on anybody, so these individuals have a chance to say no...

#1 the music industry is a brainwash in itself, i choose not to be fooled by what is quality and what is shit

#2....pfft show me where his ass has really benefited me and then we can have a discussion about that shit.

#3 i don't need a fuckin book or someone else's ideals (invisible man or not) to know how I'd like to be treated. So therefore i already have these ideals in mind without the coaxing of someone who practically has not been there for me all of my lifetime

[CreoleLadyAshanti]

From a Google search:

The 144,000 are mentioned three times in the Book of Revelation:

Revelation 7:3-8 (ESV)

saying: "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the servants of God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

Revelation 14:1 (ESV)

Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

Revelation 14:3-5 (ESV)

And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

Thank you, I was just going to post this...

The 144, 000 are the Jews that will come to Christ in the end times. If you look at Revelations 6: 9...these are the martyrs from before our time. In Revelations 7:9 - 17 are those who will come out of the time of "tribulation" which is during the last 7 years before Christ returns.:pray:

[WayOverSeas]

#3 i don't need a fuckin book or someone else's ideals (invisible man or not) to know how I'd like to be treated. So therefore i already have these ideals in mind without the coaxing of someone who practically has not been there for me all of my lifetime




Well,
There really is no way for you to outrun someone else's ideals because we are all taught. We cannot survive on instincts and be productive in our society. Show me a child that's never been taught anything and I will show you a very damaged individual.

You say you don't need anyone to know how you would like to be treated. So, I assume you know how you want to be treated without being equally responsible for how you treat someone else....

So whatever is dear to you (even if it's only the contents of the lumps in your skull)...You would like to be respected for that, but you show absolutely no respect for what others may hold dear to them. You bring absolutely nothing to the table, yet you want to be fed.

You want to get paid, but you don't want to work. Tell me how that shyt work bruh?

Every man is counted wise until he opens his mouth and proves himself otherwise. Why be mad at being born when you have acquired no skills in which to live? Surely you can get with the fact that time waits on no one. So why are you wasting your time suckin down hateraid. You hatin on the players and the game...sup with that?

Choose wisely, grasshoppa

[WayOverSeas]

withdrawn post

[WayOverSeas]

post withdrawn

[Forbus]

Well,
There really is no way for you to outrun someone else's ideals because we are all taught. We cannot survive on instincts and be productive in our society. Show me a child that's never been taught anything and I will show you a very damaged individual.

You say you don't need anyone to know how you would like to be treated. So, I assume you know how you want to be treated without being equally responsible for how you treat someone else....

So whatever is dear to you (even if it's only the contents of the lumps in your skull)...You would like to be respected for that, but you show absolutely no respect for what others may hold dear to them. You bring absolutely nothing to the table, yet you want to be fed.

You want to get paid, but you don't want to work. Tell me how that shyt work bruh?

Every man is counted wise until he opens his mouth and proves himself otherwise. Why be mad at being born when you have acquired no skills in which to live? Surely you can get with the fact that time waits on no one. So why are you wasting your time suckin down hateraid. You hatin on the players and the game...sup with that?

Choose wisely, grasshoppa




I'm not hatin, get your facts straight,, i just don't agree. I stand here not because of God but because I worked for it. Have you ever heard me say that the next man cannot believe in it? If you wanna believe that bull, go right ahead I'll support you with it. I have taken all accountability of how I treat the next human being always have and always will. Theres no hate here just from my perspective. Don't like it, oh well everyone's entitled to their opinions and beliefs correct?

[Forbus]

What makes you think it's all about you? Maybe you are the one who is supposed to be beneficial (not just the beneficiary) and you just aint doing your job. Let's discuss that. Since you don't need anyone to teach you nothing, how come you crying bout how someone's ass aint benefited you?

What do you want that was not given to you? Don't you wake up living like everyone else? Are you crippled, blind, you got both legs? you got both arms? Can you walk on your own? You obviously know how to write. Are you in prison? The fuk you want bruh?

Really benefited you.....Gimme a damn break. YOU are the one that is suppose to be beneficial. I know a little girl with no legs that sounds far more stronger than the shyt you tryina sell.

Man da fuk up. Prolly scared of the damn dark.

ain't noone tryin to sell shit to you apparently so you kinda pissin in the wind here to me my friend

[Forbus]

Sorry, but all this fukkin cryin is gettin on my last nerve....from a man. Who do you know aint lost somebody? I know brother's been to war, tore the fuk up, wasn't their fault....They aint crying about God having a fucked up agenda. Our ancestors didn't sit around crying about how fucked up God's agenda was - And they lived all their lives a slaves. So what's up with you?

Matter of fact, I think a large majority of our ancestors prayed for your lifetime to be different than theirs - You don't have to believe as they did, but you could at least respect the hope they had for your generation...WHILE living and dying as slaves. Sounds like you can't comprehend someone being treated like a slave, yet still taking the time out to pray for you in the midst of their turmoil, pain, and suffering. You make all their efforts look like a waste of time...Zero respect. Don't look like you are starving to me. Don't look like you don't have any clothes to wear. Apparently you have access to a computer - So you aint dirt poor.

Oh, but that's right....You think God's agenda is fucked up. Don't matter to me who they thought was their God or not, all I know is they poured out the hearts, blood, and tears to a source and authority that they felt would show mercy and compassion on us....Not themselves. And in their cries and prayers, their grandchildren were not born into slavery.

To me, that cannot be a fucked up agenda. Not yesterday, today, or tomorrow. hmm...I wonder where that fucked up agenda came from? They didn't have TV, cell phones, radio...Musta all come from a book. According to you, a book with a fucked up agenda. Yeah, I just know folks are standing in line waiting for you to speak and lead them....as long as they treat you nice, the way you know you want to be treated.





Sounds like someone needs a hug, keep it movin. I'm higher than no other person and i walk the same laws that the next man does. Sounds like someone needs to go check the one phrase in the bible the contradicts the entire book. But, we're all seemingly intelligent people here, i'll give you 3 guesses as to what that phrase is.

#2 you don't know what or who the fuck I'm talking about so before you even shoot off about teh next man's beliefs...be a fuckin man and approach them on their reasons.


You don't like what I say, ignore and move on with your life, because surely I haven't directed anything towards you. With that being the case, noone can tell you bullshit if you believe, so who the fuck you think you are trying to cut down another who doesn't? FUck outta here

[WayOverSeas]

post withdrawn

[Forbus]

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It is what it is, whatever respect you've earned from me is def lost at this point. take care. When you decide that you want o talk about this without cutting down the next man like they're inferior to you or your beliefs. (ie. unlike a cunt..which I assume that you aren't) my info is in my profile

[Kittensmischief]

DAMN.

[WayOverSeas]

withdrawn

[Kittensmischief]

Actually its far from brainwash.... Brain wash strips liberty, the Bible gives liberty....

also Biblical prophecies have come true, and have been proven...

the fact of the matter is that the bible in its self forces it self on no man, and neither does the Holy Spirit...

It is actaully based off of willingness and faith, not obedience and perfectionism

The scripture that says if any many thirst "let him come unto me" (john 7:37)

Biblical principles actaully encourage others as seen in proverbs to open up to knowledge and wisdom...showing how valuable it is...

The bible encourages love, social reform, economic upbuilding, helping out those who are in need...
healing and sharing joy,
Developing as a pesron
enjoying life
thinking for yourself
and making the most out of your life
and helpin others who are willing to accept help

if that is considered brainwash...re-exam the music industry, marketing, society etc... and tell me what your real opinion on brainwashing is...

The fact of the matter is that the bible accepts everything thats not of sin, just like the law accepts everything thats not of crime...But the catch is you can Be forgivin by Believing that Jesus is Lord and that God rose him from the dead with all power in his hands...

although that may sound foolish it doesnt mean its not true...
just like work from home jobs sounded foolish at one point...but now we are eeing that many of they are not scams...


Many things seem foolish but God, outsmarting us as humans, took something that was foolish to us, to befinfit all who are WILLING to be helped, by dying on the cross,(which was symbolized before hand by when jews offered/sacraficed a lamb for peace) God use something foolish and pointless to humans, so that those whp really wanted salvation, eductaed-dumb-poor-rich, can recieve it.

A problem comes in when people are unwilling to believe in Any God, but rather trust what they known all there lives, or lack there of
and call Christianity, a Love Relationship with God, brainwash...

some or to afraid that they will pick the wrong religion so they reject the idea of religion its self, some or hurt by people who go against the word of God, and taking their scars they reject christianity
and some are so full of knowledge and reasoning, they cant understand why a God would behave this way...

The good news is, that chrisitianity is for the willing, and should never be forced on anybody, so these individuals have a chance to say no...

boy..u have a beautiful soul....out of the mouths of babes! great post! and very inspiring...

[Kittensmischief]

this thread went south somewheres...wow...

[CreoleLadyAshanti]

Actually its far from brainwash.... Brain wash strips liberty, the Bible gives liberty....

also Biblical prophecies have come true, and have been proven...

the fact of the matter is that the bible in its self forces it self on no man, and neither does the Holy Spirit...

It is actaully based off of willingness and faith, not obedience and perfectionism

The scripture that says if any many thirst "let him come unto me" (john 7:37)

Biblical principles actaully encourage others as seen in proverbs to open up to knowledge and wisdom...showing how valuable it is...

The bible encourages love, social reform, economic upbuilding, helping out those who are in need...
healing and sharing joy,
Developing as a pesron
enjoying life
thinking for yourself
and making the most out of your life
and helpin others who are willing to accept help

if that is considered brainwash...re-exam the music industry, marketing, society etc... and tell me what your real opinion on brainwashing is...

The fact of the matter is that the bible accepts everything thats not of sin, just like the law accepts everything thats not of crime...But the catch is you can Be forgivin by Believing that Jesus is Lord and that God rose him from the dead with all power in his hands...

although that may sound foolish it doesnt mean its not true...
just like work from home jobs sounded foolish at one point...but now we are eeing that many of they are not scams...


Many things seem foolish but God, outsmarting us as humans, took something that was foolish to us, to befinfit all who are WILLING to be helped, by dying on the cross,(which was symbolized before hand by when jews offered/sacraficed a lamb for peace) God use something foolish and pointless to humans, so that those whp really wanted salvation, eductaed-dumb-poor-rich, can recieve it.

A problem comes in when people are unwilling to believe in Any God, but rather trust what they known all there lives, or lack there of
and call Christianity, a Love Relationship with God, brainwash...

some or to afraid that they will pick the wrong religion so they reject the idea of religion its self, some or hurt by people who go against the word of God, and taking their scars they reject christianity
and some are so full of knowledge and reasoning, they cant understand why a God would behave this way...

The good news is, that chrisitianity is for the willing, and should never be forced on anybody, so these individuals have a chance to say no...

Yes, break it all the way down...AMEN!!!

Thank you, I have never seen the gospel forced on anyone, just presented so that people will have the info because in order to have a choice options have to be presented.

Be blessed...:pray:

[Forbus]

this thread went south somewheres...wow...
nah it's just people not knowing the difference between agreeing to disagree from being a cunt. Not exactly too hard to figure out

[Kittensmischief]

nah it's just people not knowing the difference between agreeing to disagree from being a cunt. Not exactly too hard to figure out

dang Forbus! i aint sure cuz i'm sleepy,but i don't believe i saw dat man call u names like dat..das ugly baby...agreeing to disagree and no longer entertaining what irritates us can is always a good thing...

[CreoleLadyAshanti]

dang Forbus! i aint sure cuz i'm sleepy,but i don't believe i saw dat man call u names like dat..das ugly baby...agreeing to disagree and no longer entertaining what irritates us can is always a good thing...

Sis...

SMH...W.O.S. was cool with it up in here, however he can get raw, [straight no chaser], if he deems necessary. I would advise the brother to chill, and call it a night, a draw or something before he gets throughly embarassed...smh...

Not defending, just don't want to see it go down like that...[the thread on "the Spot" was bad enough]...:awwman:

PS...

in all actuality I am more concern about how the Lord may react to the brother "raising up" on Him like that. Self made men always amuse me with their proclamations while they are breathing His air, operating with the sound mind, and body He supplied, and so on...smh!!! We never appreciate what we have until we lose it...smh!

[wingman]

With all due repect, I been around long enough to realize my fellow humans need something to help them cope with everyday living.
Many people use some form of organized religion. Most of the western world happenes to use the written words of the bible to form many of their civilized cultural standards.
Fine with me. It seems to work for the most part.
Even in discussions like this one it allows the the free exchange of intellecual thought, and interpretation.
But what is the right answer here?
You've got to have respect of "blind faith".
I don't get it all the time, but it seems to work.

[Kittensmischief]

Sis...

SMH...W.O.S. was cool with it up in here, however he can get raw, [straight no chaser], if he deems necessary. I would advise the brother to chill, and call it a night, a draw or something before he gets throughly embarassed...smh...

Not defending, just don't want to see it go down like that...[the thread on "the Spot" was bad enough]...:awwman:

PS...

in all actuality I am more concern about how the Lord may react to the brother "raising up" on Him like that. Self made men always amuse me with their proclamations while they are breathing His air, operating with the sound mind, and body He supplied, and so on...smh!!! We never appreciate what we have until we lose it...smh!



yanno...i was thinking of that last night..i mean how on earth did he think he got here? there had to be someone who designed us...created us..we didn't happen by chance..i a not very religious but i KNOW that we all have a purpose,not sure where we will all end up or who is right in terms of religion..but i truly believe we were not mistakes...they way we function is too miraculous....he seems angry at God...and i have been there myself...all my prayers went unanswered,trying to hold a marriage together,my baby's epilepsy,you name it,i prayed for it..and then i got angry...and tho i'm getting much better i still have a hard time praying because i don't think he will listen now that i am so different...and because i was so very angry..working on that..i hope he will see that some things must come to pass in order for Christ to return and put an end to all of this...

[Forbus]

yanno...i was thinking of that last night..i mean how on earth did he think he got here? there had to be someone who designed us...created us..we didn't happen by chance..i a not very religious but i KNOW that we all have a purpose,not sure where we will all end up or who is right in terms of religion..but i truly believe we were not mistakes...they way we function is too miraculous....he seems angry at God...and i have been there myself...all my prayers went unanswered,trying to hold a marriage together,my baby's epilepsy,you name it,i prayed for it..and then i got angry...and tho i'm getting much better i still have a hard time praying because i don't think he will listen now that i am so different...and because i was so very angry..working on that..i hope he will see that some things must come to pass in order for Christ to return and put an end to all of this...

Thats all cool and fine.I don't believe it, at one point where I believed I was at my lowest point in my life. The day i said fuck it and keep it moving is when my life has gotten better. 99% of the people who put God and the bible 1st were in a nutshell some of the most vicious evil, uncouth and ridiculous walks of life I've ever met. But their ideals were that as long as they know the bible and talk to their 'fellow man' who thinks differently like they're fuckin destined for torture and failure. I'm sorry that to me doesn't add up to what the so called word is. Christianity isn't the only relion existing, there's probably 100 that exist give or take 5000 more that we know and not know about. All of them for the most part has one common goal. So my point is, why the fuck we gotta downgrade the next man because he thinks differently. As for me and God I'm done with messengers, I'm done with speeches in the dark and thin air, I'm fed up of being blin to it. If I'll be blind I prefer with my own eyes. None of these things I believe in makes me an evil, unjust, ignoant or bad person, doesn't make me righteous either. Everyone is in that boat whether they believe it or not.

[Nocturnal]

Forbus, I'm not tryin to get in your business but I'm kinda curious about something. Has ONE particular incident in your life made you feel the way that you do. Or was it numerous things over the course of time? The reason why I'm asking sweety, is because I see what's in your signature and I was wondering did that have a MAJOR impact on your thoughts now regarding God, The Bible etc...Or was whatever happened in October pretty much the breaking point for you to feel you have no other choice but to see God in a different light?

[Forbus]

Forbus, I'm not tryin to get in your business but I'm kinda curious about something. Has ONE particular incident in your life made you feel the way that you do. Or was it numerous things over the course of time? The reason why I'm asking sweety, is because I see what's in your signature and I was wondering did that have a MAJOR impact on your thoughts now regarding God, The Bible etc...Or was whatever happened in October pretty much the breaking point for you to feel you have no other choice but to see God in a different light?

Several things I've noted over the span of 20 years, yes October was the breaking point.

[Kittensmischief]

Thats all cool and fine.I don't believe it, at one point where I believed I was at my lowest point in my life. The day i said fuck it and keep it moving is when my life has gotten better. 99% of the people who put God and the bible 1st were in a nutshell some of the most vicious evil, uncouth and ridiculous walks of life I've ever met. But their ideals were that as long as they know the bible and talk to their 'fellow man' who thinks differently like they're fuckin destined for torture and failure. I'm sorry that to me doesn't add up to what the so called word is. Christianity isn't the only relion existing, there's probably 100 that exist give or take 5000 more that we know and not know about. All of them for the most part has one common goal. So my point is, why the fuck we gotta downgrade the next man because he thinks differently. As for me and God I'm done with messengers, I'm done with speeches in the dark and thin air, I'm fed up of being blin to it. If I'll be blind I prefer with my own eyes. None of these things I believe in makes me an evil, unjust, ignoant or bad person, doesn't make me righteous either. Everyone is in that boat whether they believe it or not.



i can respect your feeling on the issue..i really can...my grandfather was athiest...he died in 93 of skin cancer...and before he died,he kept seeing he saw something..something beautiful,now mind you he was completely lucid til the day he died,but when it happened....he saw something beautiful...



same with my uncle..he died in 92..wasn't religious and i think he was also athiest till the end of his last few months here in this world..he made amends with the people in his life carrying an oxygen tank and was blind near the end..he did all of that because he wanted to make it right with the creator..and on his death bed he saw something...something beautiful he said it's so warm and beautiful..and he said no more.....


i say all of this to say all thing will be revealed in a short while and in the end i guess we shall all see or come to believe there was something higher than ourselves and may even be revealed our purpose here...but i want u to know that i can respect your views and i don't wanna push any further than i have already..be well...

[Nocturnal]

Several things I've noted over the span of 20 years, yes October was the breaking point.

Well i can't knock ya for how you feel. Cause I can understand after devastating things happening to people over the course of time they tend to not have faith when it comes to God. It's always unanswered questions like "Why would he allow this or that to happen?" I been there so I can relate. All this "Everything happens for a reason" statements makes absolutely no sense when you have NO CLUE what the reasoning behind the tragedies are. So I definitely can understand.

[Forbus]

i can respect your feeling on the issue..i really can...my grandfather was athiest...he died in 93 of skin cancer...and before he died,he kept seeing he saw something..something beautiful,now mind you he was completely lucid til the day he died,but when it happened....he saw something beautiful...



same with my uncle..he died in 92..wasn't religious and i think he was also athiest till the end of his last few months here in this world..he made amends with the people in his life carrying an oxygen tank and was blind near the end..he did all of that because he wanted to make it right with the creator..and on his death bed he saw something...something beautiful he said it's so warm and beautiful..and he said no more.....


i say all of this to say all thing will be revealed in a short while and in the end i guess we shall all see or come to believe there was something higher than ourselves and may even be revealed our purpose here...but i want u to know that i can respect your views and i don't wanna push any further than i have already..be well...


As long as he died a happy man which from what you're telling me he did). Then he has done what he needed to do.

[CreoleLadyAshanti]

yanno...i was thinking of that last night..i mean how on earth did he think he got here? there had to be someone who designed us...created us..we didn't happen by chance..i a not very religious but i KNOW that we all have a purpose,not sure where we will all end up or who is right in terms of religion..but i truly believe we were not mistakes...they way we function is too miraculous....he seems angry at God...and i have been there myself...all my prayers went unanswered,trying to hold a marriage together,my baby's epilepsy,you name it,i prayed for it..and then i got angry...and tho i'm getting much better i still have a hard time praying because i don't think he will listen now that i am so different...and because i was so very angry..working on that..i hope he will see that some things must come to pass in order for Christ to return and put an end to all of this...

I feel you on that!!! There was much in my life I didn't understand, even in my salvation until I began to commune with the Lord, [you can question Him in fact He wants us to], and He began to reveal Himself to me in my own personal situations then I began to trust Him more and more...even when it hurts...especially when it hurts.

I still do not understand everything but the things He does reveal makes me trust Him in the things I don't.

I feel this brother has been really hurt, and He is blaming the wrong One, and rejecting the only One who can help Him. I thank God that He knows what we are going through, and shows us His love even when we "crucify" Him...[Father, forgive them for they know not what they do]. It is by the grace and mercy of God that this brother is still sustained inspite of his disdain for the Lord...however one day that will run out.

I will be praying that the Lord heals him...:pray:

[Forbus]

I feel you on that!!! There was much in my life I didn't understand, even in my salvation until I began to commune with the Lord, [you can question Him in fact He wants us to], and He began to reveal Himself to me in my own personal situations then I began to trust Him more and more...even when it hurts...especially when it hurts.

I still do not understand everything but the things He does reveal makes me trust Him in the things I don't.

I feel this brother has been really hurt, and He is blaming the wrong One, and rejecting the only One who can help Him. I thank God that He knows what we are going through, and shows us His love even when we "crucify" Him...[Father, forgive them for they know not what they do]. It is by the grace and mercy of God that this brother is still sustained inspite of his disdain for the Lord...however one day that will run out.

I will be praying that the Lord heals him...:pray:

...not to be bad but
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[CreoleLadyAshanti]

Well i can't knock ya for how you feel. Cause I can understand after devastating things happening to people over the course of time they tend to not have faith when it comes to God. It's always unanswered questions like "Why would he allow this or that to happen?" I been there so I can relate. All this "Everything happens for a reason" statements makes absolutely no sense when you have NO CLUE what the reasoning behind the tragedies are. So I definitely can understand.

I understand this...[let me summarize]...

I was married to the man I love, and we had 3 beautiful sons, [I already had a beutiful daughter]. I thought our life was good, not perfect but we were growing together, except my sister-in-laws hated me, [wanted him to marry someone else], and we had an "issues" from our childhood.

I received Christ after marriage which helped me with many of my issues from the past however he was getting migranes from his to the degree he would punch holes in walls, and would get "high" to medicate his pain.

My sister-in-laws would try anything to mess up our marriage...having parties knowing I would not come, [but I never tried to stop him from being around his family], calling our home putting females on the phone, trying to set him up with the woman they wanted him with, etc. But I trusted him, and more important, I trusted God.

When all that didn't work they started having "cocaine" parties, and he became hooked, progressed to "crack", and came home one day while I was at work and molested my 10 year old daughter. I thought I was losing my mind when my daughter called me at work stating "daddy had touched her", and she had locked herself in her room.

Now mind you this is the man I loved, the man that I submitted to, respected and cherished fo ralmost 10 years. The man I fasted, and prayed for who was the "head" of my home although he was unsaved, [he supported me in my walk, and stood with me in how I was raising our children]. The man who knocked a man out for calling me a liar because he knew I wouldn't lie for him, so I didn't lie to him. We "knew" each other...and I had prayed he would give his pain to God, however the choice was his to make...

Before the incident, he started getting farther and farther away from me, spending more time at his brothers' homes, and I wasn't even aware that he had gotten on drugs to that degree. I was so busy with the home, 4 children, church, and just trying to enjoy the time I had with him when he was home that I didn't recognize the signs, [I didn't know the ones for crack usage].

Afterwards I was so angry with God, the church, everyone...I was devastated! However over time the Lord revealed some things to me, and I began to understand even that situation. The Lord healed me, helped me, and brought me back to Him...

I will post my testimony one day...however I blamed God when I shouldn't have. Many do...

[Kittensmischief]

...not to be bad but
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Forbus...she was showing u compassion in the only way she knows how..why would u spit on her effort like that..your back was pricked up because u felt W.O.S didn't respect your stance on the issue of God and your belief or lack there of,yet u do this...it's wrong Forbus and if u want folks to respect your views and have tolerance that not everyone will come to share the ssame beliefs they do then show a little respect for others on their views..and again she was simply being compassionate in the only way she knows how...

[CreoleLadyAshanti]

Forbus...she was showing u compassion in the only way she knows how..why would u spit on her effort like that..your back was pricked up because u felt W.O.S didn't respect your stance on the issue of God and your belief or lack there of,yet u do this...it's wrong Forbus and if u want folks to respect your views and have tolerance that not everyone will come to share the ssame beliefs they do then show a little respect for others on their views..and again she was simply being compassionate in the only way she knows how...

Sis...

I am not offended, it was expected however there is nothing he can do that would stop me from praying for his healing with the love of Christ. Saul persecuted Christians unto death, however the Lord knocked him "off his horse", and he became a mighty Apostle. One day the same will happen for this brother...I believe God!!!

Blessings...

[Forbus]

Forbus...she was showing u compassion in the only way she knows how..why would u spit on her effort like that..your back was pricked up because u felt W.O.S didn't respect your stance on the issue of God and your belief or lack there of,yet u do this...it's wrong Forbus and if u want folks to respect your views and have tolerance that not everyone will come to share the ssame beliefs they do then show a little respect for others on their views..and again she was simply being compassionate in the only way she knows how...

Oh I'm not spitting on her compassion, I'm sorry if that's how you're taking it. But saying that I'm blaming the wrong one, sorry that to me is a bit hilarious. It's nothing against her or her views period.

[Kittensmischief]

Oh I'm not spitting on her compassion, I'm sorry if that's how you're taking it. But saying that I'm blaming the wrong one, sorry that to me is a bit hilarious. It's nothing against her or her views period.

ahhh..gotcha...

[Forbus]

Sis...

I am not offended, it was expected however there is nothing he can do that would stop me from praying for his healing with the love of Christ. Saul persecuted Christians unto death, however the Lord knocked him "off his horse", and he became a mighty Apostle. One day the same will happen for this brother...I believe God!!!

Blessings...

You believe God, good. I'll support your belief in him. Me personally, I don't. I'm not here to tell the next man/woman what they believe or not. You say that makes you happy, I'm happy for you

[CreoleLadyAshanti]

You believe God, good. I'll support your belief in him. Me personally, I don't. I'm not here to tell the next man/woman what they believe or not. You say that makes you happy, I'm happy for you

Thanks, Sweetie...and peace to you...smile...:boonella:

[Taz]

I have not read everything but I am glad this thread progressed as it did, I will be back to continue reading

[WayOverSeas]

withdrawn post

[Forbus]

Just for clarification....
I don't have an issue with any man's God, or rather or not a man believes as I do. The whole point was about disrespect, period. What man in his right mind would go to a Muslim gathering of 100 black men worshiping and curse Allah?

That was my point. He wouldn't. Neither would I. Yet he feels safe to curse the same God that people in his presence (online) have subscribed to. Sorry, that's just total disrespect with a helping does of punk-itous. I talk about fake people in the church a lot...Regardless of their religion, but I don't curse their God.

I talked to him in his own language (my bad), I disrespected him on purpose...waiting for his response. Interestingly enough, he was offended.

That also, was a point made...But only he could proved my point in his own comments. Lastly, he claims he knows how he wants to be treated, yet has no clue on how to treat others...Evident by his own statements.

If a man posts a date on which he turned his back on his source - his god, then it is likely that his god did not perform as he asked, begged, prayed, or wanted him to do. Who has not experienced that among us? I have not a clue as to why the things I asked for did not occur for me, but I also have enough sense to know that I also don't have a clue why God does things as He does...His ways and thoughts are far above mine - That why He is who He is. I have no choice but to watch and wait for His time to reveal what He chooses to reveal.

So, my conflict had nothing to do with his god, or his disbelief in one (if that were the case). It was all about him being a man - inside of his own conflict.




Wow, talk about the whole holier than thou attitude. But either way you've read my previous statements and I've already addressed you like a man. Least you can do is show the same respect. But either way, good luck with yourself, until you wake up.

Forbus is out.

[Kittensmischief]

Just for clarification....
I don't have an issue with any man's God, or rather or not a man believes as I do. The whole point was about disrespect, period. What man in his right mind would go to a Muslim gathering of 100 black men worshiping and curse Allah?

That was my point. He wouldn't. Neither would I. Yet he feels safe to curse the same God that people in his presence (online) have subscribed to. Sorry, that's just total disrespect with a helping does of punk-itous. I talk about fake people in the church a lot...Regardless of their religion, but I don't curse their God.

I talked to him in his own language (my bad), I disrespected him on purpose...waiting for his response. Interestingly enough, he was offended.

That also, was a point made...But only he could proved my point in his own comments. Lastly, he claims he knows how he wants to be treated, yet has no clue on how to treat others...Evident by his own statements.

If a man posts a date on which he turned his back on his source - his god, then it is likely that his god did not perform as he asked, begged, prayed, or wanted him to do. Who has not experienced that among us? I have not a clue as to why the things I asked for did not occur for me, but I also have enough sense to know that I also don't have a clue why God does things as He does...His ways and thoughts are far above mine - That why He is who He is. I have no choice but to watch and wait for His time to reveal what He chooses to reveal.

So, my conflict had nothing to do with his god, or his disbelief in one (if that were the case). It was all about him being a man - inside of his own conflict.






i was responding to what he said is all..i know exactly what u meant and what point you were making...and i agree...it was disrespectful,however since u brought up that he knows the exact time and date he turned his back on God then it is safe to say he is hurting and angry and nothing we say can or will change that fact until he is ready to open his heart up again...it was disrespectful,yes..but i see more pain than the fact he was disrespectful..

he's in pain..and i am not sure what happened but for him it was enough to just lose faith..and alot of us have been there also....you sure did speak to him in his language but when someone is in pain i don't beleive the most important thing is to prove you are right,and how he is behaving is wrong..his feelings are vaild and important....

perhaps he just needed to be allowed to vent..and say he is angry at God because he allowed someone precious to leave him..it's a very normal feeling at a time of grieving...i suppose men aren't wired that way and only see that his behaving in a foul manner as more important...

[WayOverSeas]

withdrawn post

[Kittensmischief]

If he were a woman I would be more inclined to agree. As a man, and a black man...I never had the luxury of breaking down to the level where I throw away not only my faith...But the faith others before me have shown, and gone through for my benefit.

Sometimes, among men - Iron sharpens Iron. No one said it would be nice, or comforting, or feel good. When in war, the objective is to get your ass back in the game....Right now, because everyone's life is at stake.

It's not about proving that I am right or not. It's about knowing a man's position and responsibility to lead, guide, protect, and defend. Regardless of his feelings and/or emotions.

If I have three children at home, whom I have previously inspired to believe in the Lord, (or whomever I have declared to be my god)...There is no way I would denounce the same Lord I introduced to them because something didn't go my way. This aint even about Forbus anymore...It's a matter of principle. We can discuss that at length, but the real issue is far beyond Forbus.

iron sharpens iron...my grandmother would read that to me when i was younger...i still use the phrase today....everyone grieves i their own way..and him being a man doesn't stop his grief....no need to discuss it..i am not here to challenge anything you've said thus far because again..perhaps men view things differently as i stated prior to this post...good morning.